Jake Ruth
Product Engineer at PostHog, Co-Founder of Stock Unlock (YC W22), AI Engineering
Alibaba is no longer worth owning when better opportunities exist. The case for it as a China hedge was a macro feeling applied to a single company, and it ignored Jack Ma being yanked away and a lack of cloud growth while leaning on share buybacks and looking too cheap to ignore. Despite its discount to US companies, other stocks, such as GitLab and Airbnb, now look much more compelling. x.com
Alibaba is not a cheap Amazon, and cheap can stay cheap for a long time. It trades at 2015 prices, while since 2015 Amazon has gone from $34 to $250, Alphabet from $39 to $344 and QQQ from $100 to about $770, eleven years of missed compounding. Chinese companies should not be assumed to follow the playbook of American tech giants, just as Tencent is not Alphabet and BYD is not Tesla. x.com
Alibaba's bull case ignores e-commerce margins being cut in half. A post the author replies to argues the stock is cheap at about 15x forward earnings, with cloud growth accelerating to 36% and management targeting $100 billion in annual cloud and AI revenue. x.com
Alibaba is a contrarian trade because accelerating demand for relatively cheaper compute is very underappreciated, and China's cloud market is still in its infancy versus the US. Alibaba is a consensus short as upside from closed-source AI looks illusory. x.com x.com
Anthropic's accusation that Alibaba's Qwen lab distilled its frontier models is optically bearish for Alibaba, though no penalties have been enforced. Per Anthropic, the lab used thousands of fake accounts and over 28.8 million exchanges. While penalties are absent, the rewards outweigh the risks for Alibaba if distillation lifts Qwen's market share, as many US AI startups already use Qwen for its cost-effectiveness versus Gemini and others. x.com x.com
Alibaba is not worth owning while China is cashing in on the war, because a similar P/E to Microsoft does not mean similar risk. x.com
Alibaba should be taken seriously within the next three months, trading at just 10 times 2028 earnings. x.com x.com
Alibaba's $10.2 billion sale of new stock to fund AI dilutes existing holders, shrinking each shareholder's slice. It helps the AI push but is not great for holders today. x.com
Alibaba is tough to hold because it is splitting investment between e-commerce and AI, creating massive execution risk. AI is so capex-hungry that, as Western examples show, Alibaba cannot spread spending and still reach comparable results. The market sees China e-commerce spending, including the quick-commerce race, as having no ROI, and is right. Replies argue Alibaba has no choice; it might still make it, but the risk is that its AI push slows. x.com x.com x.com
Alibaba's market cap is only about 10x the next 12 months' sales of its cloud business, so the e-commerce behemoth comes for free. The cloud business now has a $24 billion revenue run rate, growing 38% year over year and still accelerating, and it is early days in China. A post the author replies to counters that Alibaba Cloud's margins are only 3-5% versus AWS's 30%, but Google Cloud's margins three to four years ago versus today show how that can change. x.com x.com
Alibaba's $10.2 billion Hong Kong share placement shows its cash burn has caught up with it, and more dilution is likely. Core China ecommerce makes roughly $30 billion of flat EBIT, half of it reinvested in quick commerce to defend share against PDD. Cloud and AI earns $2 billion of EBIT growing 35% but burns about $10 billion a year in AI-model opex. Pro forma EBIT of about $7 billion collapses after $20-25 billion of annual capex, so Alibaba will keep tapping equity markets. x.com
